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Steve Bannon on ‘Broligarchs’ vs. Populism
Ross Douthat sits down with Steve Bannon to discuss the many right-wing factions vying for dominance in the Trump administration.
Hosted by Ross Douthat
Ross Douthat is an Opinion columnist and the host of the ‘Interesting Times’ podcast.
Steve Bannon on Elon Musk and the Battle for Trump’s Ear
Ross Douthat sits down with Steve Bannon to discuss the many right-wing factions vying for dominance in the Trump administration.
Below is a transcript of Ross Douthat’s conversation with Steve Bannon. It has been condensed and edited for clarity. We recommend listening to it in its original form for the full effect. You can do so using the player below or on the NYT Audio App, Apple, Spotify,Amazon Music, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Editors’ note: This episode originally aired on the “Matter of Opinion” podcast on Jan. 31, 2025.
Ross Douthat: On this week’s show, we’re continuing my one-on-one conversations with figures who represent different, potentially clashing worldviews within the new Trump administration. Two weeks ago I talked to venture capitalist Marc Andreessen about the newest faction in Trumpworld, the so-called tech right.
My guest this week, Steve Bannon, represents what I might call Trumpism Classic: the populist and nationalist movement that brought Trump to power in the first place and that aspires to exert significant influence in Trump’s second administration. Indeed, a lot of the wave of executive orders we’ve already seen from this White House on immigration, reshaping federal bureaucracy and more are Bannon’s populist, anti-establishment aspirations.
Bannon is also emerging as one of the most vocal critics from the right of Elon Musk and other members of the tech right. And we’re going to talk a lot about that brewing conflict.
Steve, welcome to the show.
Steve Bannon: Ross, thank you very much, but I got to correct you right out of the box. Please don’t tell me, because I read your column, that you consider Marc Andreessen a part of the right.
Marc Andreessen and the oligarchs are nothing but a bunch of progressive leftists that had their Damascene moment between 10 and 11 o’clock on the evening of Nov. 5 when the Trump movement won Pennsylvania.
